Volume 5, Number 2

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ARKANSAS TIN LIZZIES NEWS

PDF Version of the Newsletter

Arkansas Tin Lizzies, a local chapter of the
Model T Ford Club of America

                      

Dogwood Tour
In Full Bloom

Volume 5, Number 2                                                                                                2009

 

MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT

I want to say just a few lines to let you know how I believe our club is progressing.  We’re having good crowds, enjoyable tours and good fellowship.  For the ones that didn’t make the Dogwood Tour at Eureka Springs, you missed a good tour,  hilly but enjoyable.

Beverly Walker had a little misfortune, but she’s doing well now.  For the ones of you who did not know, Saturday morning she turned her knee and foot with a wrong step off the motel room porch.

Our regrets go out to Mildred Younkin on the loss of Bill, a great Model T’er.  We had a good turn out for Bill’s funeral April 17 with ten Model Ts, I believe, in the procession to the cemetery.  I had the pleasure of Bill’s brother, Jim, riding in my car.

I’ve got a big pair of shoes to fill for a year following Roy Mathis.  I’ll do my best.

Remember: Have fun, drive the Ts, and see ya on the next tour.

Bill Payne, President

April 18, 2009
MEETING MINUTES

President Bill Payne called the meeting to order with 17 members present.  Bill thanked Frank Cook for conducting last quarter’s meeting for him in his absence due to illness.  He congratulated Earl Zechiedrich and Frank Cook for a well planned tour this quarter.

The minutes for the last meeting were approved as reported in the newsletter.

A secretary/treasurer’s report was made for David Ragsdale by Nellie Howell.  The beginning bank balance was $1945.64.  Checks totaling $67.26 were written for the winter meeting for food.  One deposit for $60.00 was made.  The ending balance as of the meeting was $1938.38.  Recent flyers received on tours and events were passed around to interested members.

In old business Bill told of the Mississippi Magnolia Ts visit in March to Petit Jean and the surrounding area.  Several of our members toured with them.  The Arkansas Tin Lizzies entertained the group on Thursday of that week with a mid-morning snack and a tour of the Payne’s, Ragsdale’s and Howell’s car barns.

In new business the summer meeting was discussed for June 11-13 with southwestern Arkansas and southeastern Oklahoma for travel routes.  Earl Zechiedrich will be planning this tour.

The fall meeting is tentatively set for October 15-17 with the Jacksonville Air Base as the central location.

Bill Howell noted that there were 35 members present at the winter technical meeting and he did want to continue this featured meeting.  He was concerned that the River Valley district had not had a driving tour for the last two years and suggested a remedy to this might be to add another meeting.  Another thought would be to rotate through the areas disregarding having the tech meeting each time in Russellville.  Bill Payne suggested that we discuss this further at our next meeting.

Earl Zechiedrich brought up the use of synthetic oil in the Model T.  There was the usual back and forth on this subject.

Bill Howell was again awarded the MTFCA’s golden mouse for the top club website.  This makes two years in a row, 2007 and 2008.  Congratulations Bill.

Roy Mathis was the winner of the door prize, a whistle and a life preserver.  It was reported that he fell into a pond and these items should be kept close by to whistle for help and keep him afloat until help arrives.

Congratulations were made to Rex Poe and Marie for making it to the meeting in their new 1926 touring car that they brought home from Oregon.

Bill Payne reported that several of our club members went to the funeral for charter member Bill Younkin.  He passed away April 14, 2009.  Bill Younkin had been ill in the past several months. 

A motion to adjourn was made by Tom Patris and seconded by Earl Zechiedrich.

Respectfully submitted by Nellie Howell for David Ragsdale

Meeting Summary:

1.      Thanks to Earl and Frank for our tour.

2.      Club bank balance $1938.38.

3.      .Mississippi Magnolia Ts on Petit Jean.

4.      Summer and fall meetings discussed.

5.      Consideration of addition of another meeting.

6.      Use of synthetic oil.

7.      MTFCA 2008 Golden Mouse awarded to Bill Howell.

8.      Members attend Bill Younkin’s funeral.

Spring tour

   

Tin Lizzies honor Bill Younkin

Friday morning’s tour was modified so that members could attend Bill Younkin’s funeral services in Fayetteville.  Jim Younkin gave the eulogy and it made us smile about the fond memories he had of his brother Bill’s interesting and full life.

Friday afternoon the group made a ride on routes 23, 12 and 127.  Everyone delighted in the River Country Antiques and the Lookout Mercantile.  The River Country proprietors served us coffee in their kitchen and a generous variety of antiques.  Lookout Mercantile was a wonderland for handcarved signs

 

and old car and Model T things.  The Tin Lizzies found it difficult to leave their establishment.   Our ride then returned to Eureka Springs via route 12.

Saturday’s tour was a full day with our meeting later in the afternoon.  The first stop was Thorncrown Chapel designed by E. Fay Jones.  It is a wooden and glass structure nestled in a woodland setting rising forty-eight feet.  This magnificent chapel seemed open to all outdoors and the heavens.  A short distance down the road an emergency stop was made at Greer’s Candy Factory.  Anyone with a sweet tooth appreciated the respite.  We drove on through Mark Twain National Forest and to the Fish Hatchery at Roaring River State Park in Missouri. 

 

We had lunch at the Park’s restaurant.  The visit to Golden Missouri’s Pioneer Museum amazed our group.  There were collections of Indian and pioneer artifacts along with abundant and rare glassware displays, minerals, pocket watches, baseball cards, lunch boxes and even Elvis Presley memorabilia.

The drive back to Eureka had a challenge with rather steep hills to climb.  Several cars stuttered and stalled on one such hill, but everyone made it home again. 

         

 


 

 

Member Spotlight

Ron in their 1913 Roadster

Ron and Brenda Wood

Ron and Brenda live in Benton, Arkansas.  Ron says working on old cars just comes naturally.  He was born into a family that loves old cars.  His father that many in Arkansas Model T circles knew was T. I. Wood.  He got Ron started with the Ts.

The Woods have two Model Ts, a 1913 roadster and a 1910 speedster.  You will also find a 1953 Buick super hardtop in their garage.

Brenda owns a cleaning business and Ron is retired from Reynolds Metals where he was a mechanic.

Ron and Brenda have been heard to say that they like old cars, like going to old car events and like sharing their old cars with others.

In Remembrance
Bill Younkin
1924-2009

William B. (Bill) Younkin was born July 2, 1924 and was a Model T man to the core.  He knew the Model T from first hand experience of owning and growing up with many different kinds of Ts as well as being a mechanic professionally and at heart.

Bill and Mildred Younkin were charter members and mainstays of the Arkansas Tin Lizzies.  They had been married over sixty years and had two daughters, two granddaughters and two great-grandsons.

Bill’s expertise and spice will be missed in our group.

Click here for remembering Bill Younkin.

New members

Welcome to Michael R. and Lori Jones of Sherwood, AR.  They have a 1915 touring car and a 1924 TT, American LaFrance fire engine.

The next article was copied from The Flatland Tribune, Feb. 2009, of the MTFCA Model T Regional Group of Central Kansas.

What is a model t worth?

A fellow was new to Model Ts and ran across a restored 1919 truck, maybe a one ton.  It had a flat bed body and wood stake sides, wooden spoke wheels and the original 4-cylinder engine.  It ran, started and drove well.  The price tag was $12,500.  Was it worth that amount?

The following response was from Hap Tucker on the MTFCA Forum:

1. I would think $12,500 for a 1919 Model TT would be higher than most folks would value a TT. If it has some exceptional accessories, such as a period overhead valve cylinder head or Hemco accessory transmission cover, and is restored to a very high standard or is documented as some important historical truck then it might be more than $12,500. But in general – I don’t recall seeing many TT trucks advertised for $12,500 and folks saying – darn, I just missed it.

2. I generally recommend that folks purchase a Model T NOT as a financial investment but as an investment in fun and meeting folks with similar interest. While old cars in general tend to hold their value and go up -- you don't want to be disappointed if they do not. The 1970’s muscle cars were appreciating a lot more the last time I checked the old car market. The Model T’s appreciate some but I anticipate more and more of them will be coming up on the market as the "Greatest Generation" passes away. I know my Dad's cars would have been sold if I had not wanted them. I'm sort of emotionally attached to them -- most of the ones I have are NOT a great financial investment -- but they do have a lot of great memories. (For the memories story see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/10844.html.)

3. I would recommend you not rush into purchasing a Model T or Model TT truck before you have had a chance to look at several that are for sale and had a chance to ride in and drive a few. A short ride in a few vehicles will give you a lot better feel for how they perform. The words slow (T) and slower (TT) come to mind. How you plan to use the vehicle should have a big impact on what type of vehicle you want.

3. a. Based on your future plans – if you primarily want to trailer the vehicle to parades and then drive the T or TT in the parade – the TT with the lower gearing and room to put displays, float riders, etc. on the back might be the better choice. But again…

3. b. If you want to drive a distance more than 30 miles, the T will serve you a lot better. Both are considered hard riding antiques compared to modern cars. We had a club member that loved his 1912 touring but as he grew older and his arthritis got worse, he stopped enjoying riding in his T because it physically was uncomfortable. And a TT is even a stiffer ride than a T.

3. c. If you want something to “putt” around the neighborhood either would work fine (I’m assuming a low speed traffic neighborhood and not one with lots of 45 mph drivers.) If you have a farm and want to haul stuff the TT is the better choice.

3. d. If you are single and don’t want to take other people for rides, a single seat racer body works great. If you have 4 grand kids and you want to take all of them at one time then a touring, depot hack, or sedan (they had different versions), or town car would be a better choice. You can pile them all in the back of the truck bed – but depending on the kids and how high the sides are – it is often nicer to have a seat with a door helping to keep them all in.

3. e. An enclosed car is nice if the weather is bad – but do you plan to drive your T when the weather is bad? If not – then that probably isn’t as high a priority as if you were going to drive it in the sleet and snow.

3. f. Are you a good woodworker? Then a chassis with a wooden body such as a speedster, depot hack etc. might be just the thing for you.  Jay Cramer at Wagon Works sells plans for wooden depot hacks, etc including one for the TT chassis.  He can be reached at Wagonwork2@aol.com.  Also, the vendors have depot hack and truck type bodies for the T.

3.g. Do you want something that will keep up with modern traffic or at least get out of the way of modern traffic? If so a modified engine and better brakes with a light chassis (speedster or roadster) would be something to consider.

4. In general I would recommend joining the local T club, see what the different cars and trucks are like. Let them know what you are looking for. Don’t get in a hurry, they made 15,000,000 plus T’s and they come up for sale often compared to 1908 Model S Coupes that they made approximately 28 of. If you have the choice between a new model that drives nice and an older model that needs lots of work – I would suggest the newer one that drives nice. You can enjoy it, learn a lot from it, and if you decide you want to obtain an early car or truck you can do that and either sell the first one or, “ta-dah”, you have two Model Ts now. And in general for a first T I would recommend a T over a TT unless you have a compelling reason to choose the TT. The T, in general, is easier to park in a normal garage, takes up less room and is easier to obtain parts for (the engine and transmissions are the same in both the T &TT but body parts, frame, rear wheels, rear axle, etc. are different.)

5. Below is a posting I copied from David Grant in 2003, which gives a good summary of Model T Prices: Ignoring the impossibility of such a request, I submit my observations in the hope that they may provide some orientation to some uninitiated soul who would like some guidance without having to become an expert. Model T Values - Thumbnail sketch, in United States 48 contiguous states as of Monday, 10 March 2003:

Cars and original depot hacks and pie wagons 1917-27:

  • Parts car only, not restorable: <$1000

  • Not complete, restorable with a lot of work, engine may or may not run: $1,000

  • Mostly complete, correct, disassembled, restorable: $2,000.

  • Mostly complete, correct, recently assembled, restorable: $2,500.

  • Complete, correct, never disassembled, restorable: $3,500.

  • Runs, drives, correct, needs total restoration $4,500

  • Runs and drives, mostly correct, looks like a 10 year old used car: $6,000.

  • Everything works, not correct (wrong year engine, etc.), looks decent: $6,000.

  • Everything works, almost all correct, looks decent: $7,500.

  • Show room condition, correct, needs nothing functionally or cosmetically: $10,000.

  • Completely "restored" but with incorrect "upgrades" such as pre-1919 starter, incorrect accessories, etc.: $10,000 but buyers will be a different group than previous item.

  • Rip van Wrinkle: Car stored inside since new, less than 1000 miles: $20,000.

  • Complete factory type restoration, every nut and bolt reconditioned, completely correct: Ought to be worth $20,000, but the market will not pay much more than $12,000.

  • Trucks other than original pie wagons: Deduct 50%

  • Depot hacks, reproduction bodies: Deduct 50%

  • Speedsters, reproduction bodies: Deduct 50%

  • Town cars with original bodies: Add 100%

  • Pre-1917: Add $1000 for each year down to 1909.

  • Body only: 60% of the value of the car. Chassis only: 40% of the value of the car.

Generally, cars needing total restoration are overpriced because they are a liability, not an asset, and the cost of restoring them far exceeds their finished value. This is unfair but true. Generally, cars restored with thousands of hours of expert work are under-priced, but no one will pay their true value. Again, it’s unfair but true.  If you want to make money restoring cars, the best way to do it is to buy a car that is complete, original and basically sound but does not run. Spend 50 hours and $500 on it fixing only what is broken and give it a nice paint job so that when you're done it runs, everything works and it looks decent, and advertise it for twice what you paid for it.  If you want to do it right (partial translation: take everything completely apart), forget about making money.  Subsidize it with your regular job. Buy a good working car to enjoy until you get this one done. It will take longer than you thought. It will cost more than you thought.  It is impossible to restore any part without complete dismantling. You never know what you have until you take it apart. Caution: For any car that has been "restored" request a photographic record of each stage, and information on the experience, background and motivation of the restorer. The word means ten different things to ten different people.

6. Additionally there are price guides that can give you some ideas of what cars and trucks have been selling for. Also look at the cars that have been selling on e-bay; MTFCA swap shop http://mtfca.com/showit1/index.html ;     Model T Haven http://www.modelthaven.com/cars1.html ; The Horseless Carriage Club website http://www.hcca.org/sellit.html ; and Hemmings Motor News http://www.hemmings.com/ has lots of Model T’s listed for sale every month. The TT trucks are under the truck section and the Model Ts are at the beginning of the Ford section under the “F” section of cars for sale.

Good luck with your search and decision. Feel free to join the next local meeting – you will see a lot of cars, and often times trucks, and be able to make a better judgment about what you like.

Respectfully submitted, Hap Tucker; 1915 Model T Ford touring, cut-off and made into a pickup truck & 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter, SC.


Hap Tucker, May 1956

2009 Arkansas Tin Lizzies meeting and tour plans

Summer:  June 11-13.  The tour will be out of Broken Bow, OK.  See details below.  Contact Earl Zechiedrich, 479-474-8155.

Fall:  October 15-17.  We hope to hub at Little Rock Air Force Base. Tentative plans include touring a C-130, a photo op with the media at the State Capitol and a visit to the Clinton Library.  Contact Steve Bonifant, 501-259-8828.

Summer meeting

Mark your calendars for another fun time, June 11-13. This quarter’s meeting will be based in Broken Bow, OK.  It is right across the state line in Oklahoma‘s southeastern corner.  Our motel will be the Broken Bow Inn, 1912 S. Park Dr., right next door to a new casino.  The Arkansas Tin Lizzies have been given the “commercial” rate of $44.99 per night (if we fill 10 rooms.)  There is RV parking with full hook-up for $20.  The phone number to call for your reservations is 1-866-863-3735 and their fax is 580-584-2089. 

The agenda includes a trip to DeQueen, AR with lunch at Papa Poblano’s and a tour of the Girls Gone Wine Winery and Gift Shop.  We will see one of the finest collections of Indian art and artifacts at the Museum of the Red River in Idabel, OK.  The museum also has a complete acrocanthosaurus dinosaur which pre dates tyrannosaurus rex by 45 million year and lived in Oklahoma.  Scenic drives are planned to Sawyer, Oleta, Pine Creek and Beavers Bend Resort Park along Broken Bow Lake where there will be a stop for lunch at the Visitors’ Center.

Area Events of interest

August 7-9: First Annual Car Show and Swap Meet of the Soggy Bottom
Street Machines and Classics Assoc.  Behind Midnight Cowboy, 20455 State Hwy. 154, Centerville, AR.  www.soggybottomclassiccarshow.com has details on this event.

September 8-13:  Heart of the Ozarks’ Hillbilly Tour, Branson MO.

September 17–19:  Tulsa Model T Club’s Talimena Drive Tour.  Sun Country Inn is the hub motel in Mena, AR.

2009 Tin Lizzies officers

President…………..Bill Payne
Vice President…….Frank Cook
Sec./Treas………....David Ragsdale
Director…………….Steve Bonifant
Director…………….Earl Zechiedrich
Webmaster………...Bill Howell
Newsletter Editor….Nellie Howell